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An idea whose time may have come 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:49 pm
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
I think that you will find most if not all the people on this site are behind this but I can not say the same for the civvie in this country, this morning I was asked what the red Light blue and dark blue wrist band was for(help for Heroes) and what was the point needles to say they were not very happy after I had a few home truths in their shell like.
We will spread the word for you mate once it is started and try and get the money comeing in.

Brian


Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:01 pm
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
Thanks Brian. You are right of course that many people do not care one way or another or are even hostile to things military, this is one of the fringe benefits of democracy and I would not have it any other way personally as the alternatives are far worse. I expect inertia to be a huge obstacle, the whole thing may never get off the ground but unless an effort is made then we will never know. As for money rolling in.... well I'm not holding my breath, this will be a long process but I didn't have many plans for the rest of my life anyway.....
My kids started holiday today so I will only be here intermittently for the next few weeks but please don't take this to mean I am giving up.
Thanks to those who want to help, I hope you all have a good summer.

Geordie

ps I married a Quaker - a comitted pacifist as they all are - even she thinks this is a good thing to do so there is hope and that is in some sense all we need.


Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:39 pm
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
Check out the following if you don't think there is a need:





Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:54 am
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
Hi Geordie I have just read the Mail comment and I agree that they should reopen Haslar o any of the old BMHs, Woolwich is now a extention of Greenich and district so should be easy to reopen as a Military wing.

brian


Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:33 pm
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
Hi Geordie I have just posted a reply in the other post ref Haslar and the QEMH at woolwich
brian
PS got carried away in replying so went on the wrong one :o


Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:40 pm
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
I don't really know where to start, there are so many questions. For me, I think clarification is required on what exactly are the aims? What are we trying to do and why? As I understand it, many Military hospitals were closed down and, as a result, military people that became hospitalised had to go to a NHS hospital, is that right? A Military Hospital is defined as 'a hospital that provides care for military personnel and, usually, for their dependents'. Is that what we are seeking to create? Or are we saying that a military person injured in the course of duty and requiring hospital treatment should only go to a military hospital? That doesn't sound too practical to me. A touch of ' sod off Florence Nightingale, you're not a miltary nurse'!
Now, of course that's not what this is about but what are we suggesting? Surely, injured military are treated on site by military, if in the line of duty, but if it was a civilian at hand who tried to assist wouldn't we be very grateful?
But I suppose we are talking about beyond that stage, when I think about it, but it still comes back to what is wrong with receiving treatment in a NHS establishment? Sir Mike Jackson apparently considers that wounded miltary personnel are better off psychologically if being treated in a military hospital. I can understand that to some extent; it's the 'family' thing and you would feel more at ease, perhaps, with being 'among your own' as it were. So, is that circumstance not addressed by the Military Ward at Selly Oak?
And then, moving on, does it matter, location wise, where military hospitalisation treatment is received? Take an example of a sailor in a traffic accident, say, whilst ashore in Portsmouth. Needs hospital treatment so goes to nearest Military Hospital in, say, Southampton. This is great but, unfortunately, his wife and kids live in the Shetlands. Would he not feel better off being hospitalised nearer home in a non military hospital?
Think I had better leave it there for now but there are still loads of questions. Who would manage it? How many staff and with what qualifications? What about security? What would they do when they have no military patients? Where would the specialised equipment come from?
I know this all stems from your thoughts, Geordie, and I am most certainly not knocking your thoughts. I'm not actually knocking anything, just asking for clarification? :?


Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:29 pm
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
Take an example of a sailor in a traffic accident :?: :?: :?:

We are actualy talking about Soldiers Sailors or Airmen wounded in action and then having to be treat in Civillian Hospitals with sorry to say certain people who do not like Military patiants and also visitors that like to give military personel a hard time on the wards ....and dont dare say this does not happen
Military hospitals have given so much infomation to civilian hospitals regarding GSW and Bomb wounds that they will be missing this info very badly
And the Military deserve the best While they give there best :!: :!: :!:
Stu


Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:45 pm
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
Hi Ron
Quite an interesting few questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

At the beginning of this century the Government decided that because of the end of the cold war we would be able to take advantage of a so called 'peace dividend' and downscale the Services including getting rid of all Service hospitals on the basis of no war no wounded soldiers. Military hospitals were closed and the RAMC virtually neutered.
The military took over a few wards in NHS hospitals, scattered around the country, these wards were little more than MRS and were definitely not capable of dealing with mass casualties or indeed wounded personnel returning from a war zone. There are 14 beds at Selly Oak hospital dedicated to the services, if there are more than 14 injured at any time then the overflow are just put onto a civilian ward. Over the last month there have been nearly 150 wounded.
There have been many reports of civilians 'having a go' at wounded soldiers berating them for taking part in an 'illegal war' a crusade, killing brother Muslims etc. You've just lost your legs in a booby trap incident in Afghanistan do you really need some Sunday School teacher telling you you're taking part in an illegal war?
Experience shows that wounded people recover more quickly in an environment they are comfortable in and if they are surrounded by friends and family. Service personnel are most comfortable in a Service environment, they understand the system and are comforted by it. Their families understand the system and know how to get help and assistance as it is required. If the wounded are treated by the NHS the families don't have the same level of support from Wives' Clubs, Families Officers etc
Service hospitals traditionally treated not only servicemen and their dependents but ex-servicemen as well, again in a military environment and with the camaraderie and esprit de corps that goes with mixing with your fellow servicemen or ex-servicemen. Most servicemen and women have stated that they would prefer to be treated with their comrades.
The aim is to raise money to provide a permanent veterans and services treatment facility which, we would hope would be staffed by military personnel working alongside civilian staff but in a Service environment and to have families facilities on site.
No one is saying that NHS facilities are below par, we are just saying that wounded heroes should be given the best treatment, in the best environment and that that environment is a Service one. Service personnel want it, who are we to deny our heroes the comfort of being treated in an environment they feel most comfortable in.
I hope this has answered some of your questions Ron, it is a very quick and off the cuff reply.

Mark


Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:05 pm
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
Brian it doesn't matter where you post as long as the debate gets rolling.
Ron I hope Marks post has helped you get your head round this a bit.
Bear welcome back.
It is one week since I posted the idea and I am pleased to see that there is support out there, Mark had been very busy in the background, so a big thanks to him.
Keep posting - this belongs to no individual and any, and I mean any, comments ideas or questions no matter how trivial they might seem are welcome.
This can be done.

G


Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:39 am
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Post Re: An idea whose time may have come
First, maybe I should offer apologies for being a nit picker, nothing to do with head lice, but it's a habit I acquired many years ago when I was an Instructor (non military) and had to be equipped to answer any and all questions. There are so many ways to interpret some things and this fact has and does represent a fortune to the legal profession. Maybe I should have been a lawyer.
The response from Stu and Mark immediately indicates that there is a lack of clarity inasmuch as Stu says 'We are actualy talking about Soldiers Sailors or Airmen wounded in action' whereas Mark considers that it is 'to provide a permanent veterans and services treatment facility'. I submit that there is a big difference, your honour.

It's just dawned on me that I could write in colour; shows how slow I am on the uptake!
Maybe I'm wrong but I would have thought that in order to be registered as a charity it would be necessary to convince the Charities Commission, or other Charity Regulatory Body, that the proposed charitable trust has merit and is a worthy cause? To this end, surely it is paramount to have clear and unambiguous aims? So, rather than complicate things further, perhaps it should be 'to provide a military establishment for the medical treatment of those Service personnel wounded in the line of duty'? This, of course would not include anyone hospitalised for any other reason!!!
Problem with that is that non-wounded people would still be in NHS hospital and possibly exposed to the harrassment suggested by Stu. But maybe these are the finer points that will need to be thrashed out prior to application for charity status. Is it proposed, incidentally, to involve a legal expert to apply for Charity Registration? Maybe the legal department of the military would help, FOC?
Moving on, and I think I should just **** out after this, how will the place be staffed? If staffed by military, which I think would be a MUST, how will they be remunerated without impinging on any military budget? OK, they're paid by the military anyway but they're paid to be somewhere other than in this new BMH so if they go into the BMH will they have to be replaced by other bodies elsewhere?
Sorry guys, there are so many questions still buzzing round. Maybe I should just shut up and wait to see how it all develops. I have the feeling that I'm of absolutely no help at all. This will be my last words on the subject although if it is felt that I could be helpful in any way then please let me know. It will be interesting to see how it develops. Ron.


Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:07 pm
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